Extracted messages from the Fido TradeWars conference. Lightly edited for space and spelling only. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BILL WYNNE ³ Date: 05-07-92 To: RICK WARD ³ Time: 13:24 Subj: Sucker! Hello Rick! Tuesday May 05 1992, Rick Ward writes to All: RW> Today, I got the ultimate revenge. I put fighters in every exit from RW> Stardock. I put a couple of my planets in the entrance along with RW> more fighters. Then I made an announcement that I was waiting for him RW> at Stardock. Oh, one other thing. I attacked a good trader in the RW> Stardock to attract Captain Zyrain ... How sweet! He bulled his way RW> through my fighters in the entrance and popped into Stardock. Boom! Excellent strategy! My hat's off to you. Bill * Origin: REVELSTONE Ft. Worth,Tx.(817)732-1767/(817)239-6948 (1:130/402) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JOEL DOWNER ³ Date: 05-07-92 To: BRANDON BANNERMAN ³ Time: 11:13 Subj: Re: 1639 Shield Bug BB>of TradeWars2 10.0 and the old 200-sector version ... it refers to BB>the drying up of a port to absolute zer0. Understood. Eugene Huang refers to this practice as "icing" a port -- I also find that term pretty descriptive. BB> - It renders the port useless to your opponents for a time, while having BB> already served your purpose. Well ... point taken, but if my enemies want to move all the way to a port just to trade 300 - 400 units in each commodity, I'll let them. BB> - It allows you to squeeze every last drop out of the port while never BB> losing any money (I have *never* seen a port with a bad enough percent- I've never seen a pair that loses money, either. However, I have seen the profit margin drop below 2,000 -- and considering how much *more* money one could be making stealing equipment and selling it back to a port, that's pretty painful. BB> - It minimizes the spread of your trading. The trader who moves around and The point about conservation of turns is a valid one. I typically use a StarShip for trading, so I'm not very worried about distances; but in a StarMaster (or, even more to the point, in a *Mule*) moving around can be costly. BB> tries to maximize his profit by spreading his trading between a number BB> of ports is incidentally leaving himself open to the old Trace-And-Mine BB> routine. Especially if that trader plans to go back to these ports. (1) I name my ship "The Merchant Marines," which makes me very difficult to trace (it's possible, but expensive and awkward, to sort through all of the entries). (2) If you don't cloak at your stealing/trading sites (whether I do depends upon the nature of my competition), do you really need to worry about mining? Disruptors are cheaper than mines, after all... (3) If you do cloak at your stealing/trading sites, couldn't an opponent who understood your patterns know to look for a trade pair you've used but *haven't* completely depleted, and mine the heck out of it? Unless I'm mistaken (very possible), your trading pattern could actually *help* an opponent choose the most promising of all the sectors where you've docked on a given day. BB> Granted. However, we come back to the issue of time. I don't have the BB>time or inclination to sit there with a calculator, and not the desire to Well, I don't use a calculator for two-point trading. You do need a calculator to do the 5-point stealing cycle, but you should theoretically only need it once per port. I wouldn't dispute that your method is faster. Whether the benefits of haggling pay for the time invested is a matter of personal preference. You certainly sound as if you've had a great deal of success with your approach. BB> I personally have found the ether probe target utility in TW View to be BB>not only useless to me, but inefficient when compared to the method I use. If you use it as recommended, yes. My experience with TWView is that the *peripheral* information is frequently more valuable than the information the author thinks is important. One example is the "scanner newly blocked" message in the CONVERT program; another is the "sector XXX inaccessible" message in OFFLINE's ether probe utility. BB>that is, I plot some courses to random sectors, select some with long BB>strings (unexplored or explored; doesn't matter) and mark avoided sectors BB>in the middle of them until I'm satisfied. Your approach is very similar to the one I use. The only difference is that instead of choosing *random* sectors, I use sectors listed as "inaccessible" in the ether probe program. Most of these sectors are "inaccessible" only in the sense that no currently explored sector borders on them; and that means that the path to them is *guaranteed* to include at least two red sectors. Joel * SLMR 2.0 * Tell the sky: "Don't fall on me!" --- WM v2.01/91-0098 * Origin: The Dreaming City, La Mesa, CA, 619-462-8406 (1:202/1104) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JOEL DOWNER ³ Date: 05-03-92 To: JERRY HARRIS ³ Time: 14:17 Subj: Ceos And Strategies JH>Joel, that response on strategy is without question the finest, most JH>comprehensive, most helpful, best written, knowledgeable text on the JH>subject I have ever read!! Thanks for the kind words! Now I wish I had thought to save it to a file ... JH>blundering around getting blown up. While I am sure that there are those JH>who will prefer other directions, your strategy sounds to me like a very JH>secure and profitable way to go. Well, I think that *many* different approaches to the game can succeed. I (and a number of other people on this echo) could probably sit down and outline several good counters to the strategy I described; if my enemies used one of the counters, and I stuck to the basic plan inflexibily, I'd be beaten pretty badly. (Forgive me if I refrain from providing such an outline. Now that I'm tuning up for inter-city tournaments, I have to show *some* care ... ) JH> Can any of the defenders of Good alignment offer a similar text? To be honest, I *don't* think that any of those counters would involve playing good. It's possible for a good player to survive in this version against skilled evil competition, given a combination of good luck and excellent play -- all the successful scenarios involve building a few planets, hiding them meticulously, and using the citadel odds to keep your opponents fighting at 1-to-3 odds. But if both sides play well, I think that the evil players are likely to stay on the offensive, and the good players on the defensive. JH>terms Good and Evil as they apply to the allignments in TW. Basically, JH>the so-called Good players are alligned WITH the Feds while the Evil JH>players are attempting to OPPOSE the Feds. I agree with you here. I don't pretend that the character I play is law-abiding and civilized -- he's a ruthless opportunist -- but he'd be a ruthless opportunist whether he were trading with ports or stealing from them. Some of the things the game treats as evil -- stealing, dumping colonists into deep space -- really aren't very nice things to do; but it's also true that a character can be sadistic, nasty, mean, ill-tempered, and treacherous, and come out with a 32,000 alignment. JH>you shared with me. Don't let the clock run out on you while you are in JH>computer mode! I had my cloaking device ready to deploy and was running a JH>CIM download, confident that if the clock ran out, I would still be given a This is a really frustrating feature. A few of my beta-testers ran into the same problem when trying out FINDSGA: they'd run out of time and get stuck somewhere uncloaked. Bleych. Take care, Joel * SLMR 2.0 * In fact, TOO excellent! You can't salvage anything! --- WM v2.01/91-0098 * Origin: The Dreaming City, La Mesa, CA, 619-462-8406 (1:202/1104) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JOEL DOWNER ³ Date: 05-03-92 To: JAMES BEARSS ³ Time: 14:22 Subj: Re: Iss JB>Thank you for the helpful info. Could you elaborate on the use of ether JB>probes to assist a blind Transwarp. I tried a blind TWarp once and ended JB>up a smoking heap of rubble. Is there a way to do it safely? Yes. Say that you're trying to get to StarDock. If you try to blind TransWarp directly to StarDock, you will *always* die: you don't (can't) have a fighter there, and there's solid mass in the way. Approach: fire an ether probe to StarDock, and watch carefully. Find the *last empty sector* on the way to StarDock (by "empty," I mean *absolutely* empty: no fighters, aliens, Ferrengi, traders, mines, planets, beacons, etc.). Without passing the command line again (e.g., don't go into computer mode first, don't redisplay the sector or check trader info), blind TransWarp to that last empty sector. The reason you don't want to pass the command-line an extra time is that the movement of Aliens, Ferrengi, and Federals is keyed to the number of times you pass the command line, *not* to your use of turns. The TransWarping method I've described is, as far as I know, *completely* safe -- I've been using it constantly for over six months (thousands of blind jumps) and I have *never* had the technique fail. Joel * SLMR 2.0 * Lenny Bruce is not afraid. --- WM v2.01/91-0098 * Origin: The Dreaming City, La Mesa, CA, 619-462-8406 (1:202/1104) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JOEL DOWNER ³ Date: 05-03-92 To: DAVID WHITE ³ Time: 14:45 Subj: A Plea For Help! DW>Thanks for the tips, but can you explain more to me about how to make DW>money? Obiviously, my not playing on a corp. limits how much I can earn DW>but I can't even BEGIN to fathom how you can make 10-15 million in TWO DW>WEEKS!! In a 150-move game, you've actually got a pretty good shot at making that kind of money. Again, my first piece of advice is to lose the Transport: it's *really* a liability under your current circumstances. For now, you might swap over to a StarMaster, and plan on going to a Mule in a few days, when your experience is about 2,300. DW>only making about 13,000 per two turns (steal, then sell), which did not DW>seem to be earning me a whole lot! (taking in consideration the time it DW>took to get to the port, rapid price depriciation, etc.) Well, you shouldn't really have any price depreciation if the steal-sell cycle is working right: because you're stealing back equipment as soon as you sell it, you should be able to trade at a port without depreciation until you're busted. You're right about the turns and about the money you'd lose replacing turns; the costliness of these turns and holds are one reason that the ColTrans is not such a hot ship. Here's about how your profits should line up. If you're in a 150-move game, you'll get 200 turns per day in a StarMaster. Stealing 70 holds at a time, you'll be earning about 10,000 credits every other turn; counting in the fact that you may be busted 1-3 times per day, and that you'll have to you should still be able to make about 650,000 - 800,000 credits per day. After you've done this for a couple days, you may want to move to a Mule and "bust planets" to get your experience up to 2,300 or so (by creating dummy planets and blowing them up, you can get 70 experience per 40,000 credits -- a pretty good deal, especially for an evil player). In a Mule, you'll have 125 turns, and you'll be able to make about 20,000 every other turn. That means that your profits may range anywhere from 600,000 (on terrible days, when you get busted 3 times and have to spend lots of turns finding new ports) to 1,400,000 (when you find a great port and can stay there all day). Hope this info helps. DW>using some holds-experience ratio? Getting busted just once can ruin DW>your day (not to mention the goods and holds they fine me). Well, if you're using 150 holds and the 5 point cycle in a 150-move game, one bust will usually allow you to *gain* a small amount of experience, depending on when in the day it happens. The cost of the holds is a *big* problem in a Transport (something like 100,000 credits); it's only about 35,000 credits in a Mule, and more like 8,000 in a StarMaster. DW>Colonial in for something else? And why a Starmaster or Mule? Why DW>not a Flagship? The FlagShip is not a bad money-maker, and the TransWarp drive can be a real asset *if* you're comfortable using ether probes and blind TransWarp. For the most part, though, StarMasters and Mules are better money-makers. DW>And so, is stealing/selling the BEST way to get money? Yup. None better. DW>what's the best way to get experience? (seems like I need to kill aliens Unless you're in a game that's loaded with high-experience aliens in cargo ships, busting planets is much cheaper than killing aliens. Obviously, the *best* way is to kill other powerful traders, but doing so isn't always easy. If you use the five-point cycle, the only time you should really need extra experience is when you're in a hurry to get into a bigger ship; at that time, planet-busting is a good choice because it takes *no* turns. DW>Thanks again for the tips. My main goal is still looking forward to DW>becoming powerful enough to exact my revenge on my enemies (Call me a DW>sniveling insect, will they??) :) Sounds like you've got something to keep you motivated! Joel * SLMR 2.0 * Bury magnets; swallow the rapture. --- WM v2.01/91-0098 * Origin: The Dreaming City, La Mesa, CA, 619-462-8406 (1:202/1104) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JOEL DOWNER ³ Date: 05-03-92 To: EDWIN CHEN ³ Time: 14:48 Subj: Bad Guys? EC>daily ... also, I'm not using a cloak. With 99 mines in the sector EC>and only 1 really active player that's a threat, should I be okay? My standard advice is *always* to use a cloak. Whether you're safe without one depends upon the skills of your opponent; but if your opponent is good, the *only* way he can outearn you is by blowing you up and collecting a mammoth bounty. Why give him the chance? EC>Is there ever any maintenance posted rewards for killing good guys EC>like there is in the police station for bad guys? Alas, no. The Underground is pretty lame. Take care, Joel * SLMR 2.0 * In fact, TOO excellent! You can't salvage anything! --- WM v2.01/91-0098 * Origin: The Dreaming City, La Mesa, CA, 619-462-8406 (1:202/1104) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JOEL DOWNER ³ Date: 05-03-92 To: RICK WARD ³ Time: 15:09 Subj: Reposted Per Request Note: this is the full text of the file as I originally wrote it. It includes some material that isn't directly related to the evil StarShip, but I think it may be useful. cut here ------------------------------------------------------------- EVILSTAR.TXT by Joel W. Downer Keeping an Imperial StarShip when evil: 1. Avoid FedSpace as completely as possible. *Never* travel through sector 1-10, and only travel to the StarDock using the strategy described below. Be *very careful* in all areas adjacent to FedSpace, and spend as little time on the Major Space Lanes as possible. 2. Deploy single toll fighters wherever possible when you travel. The Feds cannot travel through sectors with fighters in them, so (a) when you're in a sector with a fighter in it, you are *completely* safe from the Feds, and (b) the more fighters you have scattered outside the Major Space Lanes, the less the Feds will be able to *travel* outside the Major Space Lanes. Imprisoning Admirals Nelson and Clausewitz would be wonderful, but an evil StarShip captain should *never* try it him/herself. It's altogether too dangerous. 3. Travel by TransWarp whenever possible. When you *must* travel by conventional warp, use the following pattern: move-deploy-scan, deploying a toll fighter immediately in each sector you enter. Whenever you visit the StarDock, buy a full complement of ether probes and cloaks: ether probes are necessary for blind TransWarp, and cloaks can bail you out if you get stuck somewhere (even Zyrain can't attack a cloaked ship!). Carry at least 750 shields and keep mine disruptors, in case someone tries to mine you to death; don't carry more than a few thousand fighters -- they won't help you if you run into the Feds. 4. Find out how many entrances the StarDock has -- usually, it'll have one or two. If it has one, the approach to the StarDock is pretty simple: fire an ether probe into the StarDock, blind TransWarp into the *completely empty* sector nearest SGA. Deploy a fighter immediately, warp in, and do your business. If you see one of the Federals at or near the StarDock, put off your business until he leaves the vicinity -- you may want to restock your shields or holds at Rylos or Alpha Centauri. Don't try to deploy a fighter AT the StarDock; DO deploy a fighter at Rylos or Alpha Centauri when you go there. 5. *NEVER*, unless you have some special reason (e.g., hiding the path to your planet), remove your fighters when you're done in a sector. Forget about the 200 credits. You won't miss them. 6. *BEWARE OF MARKER BEACONS*!!! Marker beacons and wandering aliens are the two greatest dangers to blind TransWarp. Never place them, and destroy them when you can. 7. Don't take unnecessary risks with corbomite. If someone leaves you bait -- e.g., if a hated enemy parks in a major transit sector with 0 fighters in a Scout Marauder, politely decline the invitation. Well, not *TOO* politely. Leave 99 mines in the sector to let him/her know you still care... ;> 8. When you choose stealing sites, look for places where a port that sells equipment, a port that sells fuel ore, and a port that buys equipment are in close proximity. TWView and my "EVILPAIR" utility are both useful for finding these ports. General Hints: Stealing for Fun and Profit: 1. The basic steal-sell cycle works as follows: find a port that's selling equipment, and steal or buy 150 holds. (When you're using ports identified with EVILPAIR.COM, it's actually smarter to buy than steal your first load. Don't risk making a port angry with you when you may need to buy fuel ore there the same day!) Move to a port buying equipment -- preferably a port at 100%. Sell the equipment for the best price you can negotiate (see the section on the five-experience point trick, below). Now, port and *STEAL BACK THE EQUIPMENT YOU JUST SOLD*. Sell the equipment again, steal it, and repeat the process until you're caught or out of turns. When you get caught, you'll lose 13 holds (out of 150) and 10% of your experience. Sometimes you'll be caught more often than you like, but if you steal a sensible amount (no more than one hold per 15 experience points), you'll typically make more than enough to compensate for the trouble. Important: When you get caught, write down the location and the date. You won't be able to port there for at least 14 days without getting busted again (even if you just port to *trade*, you may get nailed). After a couple of weeks, you can go back and work the ports again. 2. The five experience-point cycle works as follows. The first time you dock at a port, accept the port's first offer for your equipment. Write down the offer, and using a calculator and the results from your psychic probe to calculate and round off the best price. (E.g.: first offer was 19,200; psychic probe reports 96.69% of best. Best price = 19,200 / .9669 = (int)19857.2 = 19857. Steal back the equipment and dock again. If the first offer is within half your number of holds (75 in a StarShip) of the first offer from last time (19125 - 19275) bid the number that you calculated last time (19857). If the offer is substantially higher or lower, adjust the best price by a multiple of your number of holds. If the offer is 19,325 (125 higher), bid 150 higher; if the offer is 265 higher, bid 300 higher; if it's 700 higher, bid 750 higher. When in doubt, overbid. If the port refuses your initial offer, you can still often get the five experience points; just understand that the best price will *change*, by 30% of the difference between your offer and the original best price. Example: The port offers 19,278, and you bid 20,007. Oops! The port tries to barter, telling you that you guessed wrong -- evidently, the best price was still 19,857. Your error has changed the best price by 150 * .30, or 45 credits, so the *new* best price should be 19,902. This approach will not work at every port. Some ports don't seem to have a best price; at others, the initial estimate with the psychic probe will actually be a few credits low or high. If you master this technique, though, you'll be able to get five experience points on *every sale* at many ports, and on *most sales* at many others. 3. Price guidelines: *very good* equipment-buying ports will pay 22,000 - 23,500 credits for 150 holds of equipment. Spending tons of turns looking for the perfect port can end up *wasting* money, though, because every turn in a StarShip is worth at least 9,000 credits. (What's more, tooling around in a StarShip when evil is *dangerous*!) I'm usually content to work a port that offers 20,000 for 150 holds, and I'll sometimes put up with ports paying as little as 19,000. Ports that only offer 16,000 - 17,000, however, are taking things a little far ... Good trading! * SLMR 2.0 * Bury magnets; swallow the rapture. --- WM v2.01/91-0098 * Origin: The Dreaming City, La Mesa, CA, 619-462-8406 (1:202/1104) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JOEL DOWNER ³ Date: 05-03-92 To: BRANDON BANNERMAN ³ Time: 15:40 Subj: Re: Twship Ship Editor Pr BB> No kidding. When it comes to cargo moving, I believe the Mule to be BB>second only to the Imperial StarShip and Colonial, and it ties with the BB>ISS I think. Well ... as I'm sure you know, the TransWarp drive on the I.S.S. makes it *functionally* far superior to the Mule for moving cargo (e.g., because you can get from trading/stealing site to trading/stealing site in only a couple of turns, because you can get back home after trading almost instantly, etc.). But the Mule and the I.S.S. do have identical hold capacities and turn rates. Take care, Joel * SLMR 2.0 * Bury magnets; swallow the rapture. --- WM v2.01/91-0098 * Origin: The Dreaming City, La Mesa, CA, 619-462-8406 (1:202/1104) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JOEL DOWNER ³ Date: 05-03-92 To: BERT EVANS ³ Time: 15:56 Subj: Re: Alien Personality BE>A MORE active role? Geez. On one of the boards I play on, they walked BE>through my defenses, wiped out my home planet and decided to destroy my BE>partner's and my own ships! As of this version of TW2002 (v. 1.03), the Ferrengi do not invade planets, and do not attack ships belonging to players who are not on-line at the time. If these things seemed to happen in your game, you should suspect (a) that a player changed to a Ferrengi name, to confuse you, or (b) that the sysop is mucking around with the game. Take care, Joel * SLMR 2.0 * The meerkat is a small, South African mammal. --- WM v2.01/91-0098 * Origin: The Dreaming City, La Mesa, CA, 619-462-8406 (1:202/1104) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: STEVE LEWIS ³ Date: 05-07-92 ³ HALL OF MIRRORS º To: TRENT WOODRUFF ³ Time: 13:42 ³ 000-000-0000 º Subj: Bad Guys? ³ Msg#: 2515 ÃÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄĶ > No no no....in my humble opinion, the 60-turn game is the best. > A LOT more? > RW> I'd avise putting 10,000+ on the Planet and 10,000+ in the sector > RW> Defensive > Why bother leaving any in the sector? Why not put all 20,000 > on the planet? 1st. I agree! I don't WANT to spend an hour in Trade Wars every day, on each board I plan to use ... unfortunately, the 250 - 800 - 2500 turn game exists as a power here ... 2nd. What about moth'rs? I wouldn't leave MINES for goodness sakes, offensive fighters are better, but are easy to loose FAST! If I had 10,000 fighters, I would buy more! about 7,500 in the sector, and that would take care of the cursing grunts in scouts. --- GEcho/beta * Origin: Alternative Realities v32bis/v42bis (503)526-9668 (1:105/366) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JUSTIN NEWTON ³ Date: 05-02-92 ³ HALL OF MIRRORS º To: EDWIN CHEN ³ Time: 21:00 ³ 000-000-0000 º Subj: Bad Guys? ³ Msg#: 2516 ÃÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄĶ > Thanks a lot....When you enter the game as a bad guy, do you still > have to pay taxes? And is about 9500 credits right for each sell cycle > of 70 holds in a 60 base turn game for a SM? Because 9500*40 (80 > divided by 2 turns per cycle) is only about 360,000-400,000 credits. > And I not selling at the right prices? The sysop said he would change > the ISS back to normal, thanks god! Thanks a lot for the help, I > appreciate it a lot! Ok, well in a 60 base turn game you can't make much more than 300,000 creds ... You don't have to pay taxes if you are evil BUT good guys don't either if they put their money in a citadel... I think the Star Master is best overall for a solo trader... but you may want to get a Mule if you have about 5000 experience... Also a Corp Flagship is an good ship... I used a Star MAster, then a Corp Flagship, then a Mule... Robbing all the way... I make a bundle in the mule but don't really like the low turns... In a low turn game stay with the Star Master... BTW.. Taxes are only 10%.. not too bad.. # Origin: Space Trader's Palace. (918)245-8774 (8:7006/305) * Origin: FamilyNet Intl. Echogate [708] 887-7685 (1:11/50) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JUSTIN NEWTON ³ Date: 05-02-92 To: STEVE BAKER ³ Time: 08:53 Subj: Tw 2112 > As you, (and the moderator) can see, I've kinda got a bitter taste in > my mouth about this latest "development".. although, I *SHOULD* > probably wait until the next version of TW2002 comes out, I sincerely > believe that all of those things will *NOT* be implemented, Well you can keep your bad taste to your self... They stated that they would release a final version of TW2002 with the bugs fixed and with a few additional features... > -=> Quoting Kris Lewis to Richard Shiflett <=- > Howdy Richard... > RS> TW2112... > RS> Meriad of questions here: > RS> 1. Is this a completely different game? > > Author says it is, although it would appear that it's not an > ENTIRELY new game, just the implementation of those features > promised in TW2002 "at a later date", ie. uses for all 6 > planets, dreadnaughts, ferrengi functions, computer upgrades, > etc, etc, ad nauseum.... Did they state that they would implement these features.. We exoect them to be implemented into either that last 2002 or an early 2112 but I haven't seen a statement on that note... > RS> 3. Will there continue to be TW2002? > Nope 2002 will still be around for people that don't care for the 2112 and for sysops that can't pay a measly $20 extra for the 2112... > RS> 4. Are all my registering dollars wasted? :( > Yep No.. I've gotten over half a year out of MY registered game.. and a game I helped register got 1 year out of it (a couple of big bangs but the code was in use).. 2002 is a excellent game.. $15 was not wasted.. and seeing as how it will be over 4 months til 2112 is out I think I'll keep running 2002... > development has been MUCH too slow for me to believe that he's gonna lay > all of that on us at once... I think he's just figured, what the heck, > everyone's hooked on it, I can make some REAL money now. ... Oh, yeah, > the registration is gonna be a LOT more for this "new" TW, to the tune > of up to $85 for a multinode version, and at it's cheapest, $20 to > REGISTERED sysops of TW2002 that can still produce the card they were > sent when they registered 2002. That INCLUDES a $15 discount.... Do you know exactly how much he's been working on 2002? Has he given you a log of his activities? Do you live next door to the guy? If not then I can safely assume that you don't know how much he's been working... And I seriously doubt he's making much profit off of this game.. And if he is then writing/improving this game is probably the only thing he does for a living ... $85 is not unreasonable for the amount of code it would take to get that many lines acting together. $20 upgrade isn't bad either. He has been undercharging for this game a long time. I mean registrations for games of similar caliber (not many out there) are high compared to $15... BTW... All of this was IMHO, or previously stated facts... # Origin: Space Trader's Palace. (918)245-8774 (8:7006/305) * Origin: FamilyNet Intl. Echogate [708] 887-7685 (1:11/50) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JUSTIN NEWTON ³ Date: 05-01-92 To: JOEL DOWNER ³ Time: 16:37 Subj: Ferrengi Ships ³ Msg#: 2521 > This happens with aliens (thus the "StarDock massacre" strategy), > but not with Ferrengi. Pity, IMHO. It does work however with Ferrengi... Called Ferrengal Massacre (tm). I got two or three that way.. just one warp from Ferrengal.. The older the game the faster the Ferrengi regenerate online.. The ferrengi ships however never regenerate during Extern.. only their fighters in the sector w/ Ferengal... What also helps online regeneration is the chance of Ferrengi moving.. I have all my games set to 1 in 15... I have Battle Cruisers in games less than 90 days old in ver .98 and 13 Ferrengi (til I killed some) in a 1.03 game that is 110 days old... and they regenerated like rabbits to a point.. # Origin: Space Trader's Palace. (918)245-8774 (8:7006/305) * Origin: FamilyNet Intl. Echogate [708] 887-7685 (1:11/50) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SCOTT SCHMIT ³ Date: 05-07-92 To: DAVID WHITE ³ Time: 16:55 Subj: Stealing Techniques... * In a message originally to ALL, David White said: DW>More questions here, people: DW>1) Can anyone explain why the 5-experience-point PowerMacro won't DW>work for me? I docked at a Class 8 port buying 100% of equipment, DW>sold my equ., stole it back, then sold it again. The second time I DW>tried to sell my equipment, I was selling the exact same amount, the DW>port was still buying the same amount (100%), and yet it offered me DW>a lower price than before! (obviously messing up the Powermacro.) DW>Why isn't the port offering me the same price; it's buying the same DW>amount!? DW>2) Any tips on how to find a good place to steal money? There's at DW>least two other bad experienced bad guys in my game so they may just DW>run and steal everything before I get there; yet it seems that over DW>here will be a port with 631 credits while over there will be a port DW>with 140,000 credits to steal! So what's a good strategy in identifying DW>good ports to rob from? Go to drained Equ-Org pairs? Class 7 ports? DW>Something else? DW> þ SLMR 2.0 þ Help stamp out, eliminate, and abolish redundancy! I don't know anything about the power macro thing but as far as the best ports to steal from: I have found that the Class 5 & 1 are generally the best. Class 3 & 8 are the worst. 2, 4 & 6 are somewhere in the middle. Class 7 ports are really good if they have been traded hard. If you get busted at a port you will have to wait 14 days until you can steal again unless someone else gets busted at that same port. * Origin: Freq COTS.ZIP the new TW clone from 151/801 (1:151/801) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAVID WHITE ³ Date: 05-07-92 To: MATT BROWN ³ Time: 23:51 Subj: Thought Crossed My Mind... MB>Hey Joel, i just got a crazy idea ... if you trap all three of the MB>Federals in some sector, could you attack good players in fed space? MB>Just a thought. Lemme know what you think... No good; Zyrain can always warp into Fed. Space no matter WHERE you trap him. * Origin: D&R BBS Where did that Photon Missile go? Dual Std (919) 227-5215 (1:3644/5) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: RICK WARD ³ Date: 05-07-92 ³ HALL OF MIRRORS º To: JOEL DOWNER ³ Time: 03:55 ³ 000-000-0000 º Subj: Re: Ceos And Strategies ³ Msg#: 2966 ÃÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄĶ -=> Quoting Joel Downer to Jerry Harris <=- JD> I agree with you here. I don't pretend that the character I play is JD> law-abiding and civilized -- he's a ruthless opportunist -- but he'd be JD> a ruthless opportunist whether he were trading with ports or stealing JD> from them. Some of the things the game treats as evil -- stealing, JD> dumping colonists into deep space -- really aren't very nice things to JD> do; but it's also true that a character can be sadistic, nasty, mean, JD> ill-tempered, and treacherous, and come out with a 32,000 alignment. I have to agree with you. I played a good trader in a recent game after earning a TON of money. I now have a 5-digit alignment but am hated by every trader in the game (excluding my corporate lackeys :^). It's kind of funny that you can mine just about every sector of space and kill off tons of good traders that way, but not have it reflected against your alignment. Here's a thought: have mines that can be set up to explode based on the alignment of the person entering the sector. Better yet, only have mines that will explode when people with criminal records (evil) enter the sector. THAT might even out the game for good traders, especially if your were allowed to leave these types of mines in major trading lanes. Actually, that might be too much... Rick * Origin: -=< METRO COM >=- Austin, TX (512) 836-9097 (1:382/16.0) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: THOMAS HUNT ³ Date: 05-08-92 To: JOHN BRADLEY ³ Time: 00:22 Subj: Tw Mall *** Quoting John Bradley to Joel Downer dated 05-05-92 *** > Exactly what is TW Mall... I have been playing for a while and have heard > a few things about it but nothing really in detail... Also, a friend TW MALL is an add-in program you can D/L from Castle Ravenloft (home of Trade Wars 2002) that was written by an independent programmer up North for interfacing with the Star Dock. (Written for WWIV chain.txt) The version I got didn't work for me as I run a TAG 2.6 based BBS so I don't know if it works or not, but supposely its an option from Star Dock that will let the user do a few things he normally couldn't do. ie.. Contact the Transwarp towing service, contact a detective agency to find any "uncloaked" player for a fee, buy Black market Photon Missles for use on any ship and a few other enhancements. The version I got was a demo, would let a user "brouse" around, but not do anything. Supposely all versions are demos till the $5.00 registration fee is sent in. * Origin: Hacker's Domain 1:396/70 (504) 468-3290 (1:396/70.0) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BRAD DELONG ³ Date: 05-08-92 To: STEVE LEWIS ³ Time: 10:27 Subj: Re: Bad Guys? Wouldn't it be best to leave one fighter in the sector on defence and the remainder on the planet? Since the one fighter must be destroyed to enter the sector, the Q-cannon fires twice before he gets a chance to land. * Origin: The Gaming Connection; Longwood FL; (407)869-4582 HST (1:363/105) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: CHRIS SIZEMORE ³ Date: 05-07-92 ³ HALL OF MIRRORS º To: DAVID WHITE ³ Time: 22:08 ³ 000-000-0000 º Subj: A Plea For Help! ³ Msg#: 3023 ÃÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄĶ If your going to steal/sell, be aware that some days are really bad. You usually won't get caught if you only hit a port 4 or 5 times. It seems like a loss of money spending all that time moving around, but then again its harder to replace lost experience than lost money... The reason for dropping a mine in every sector isn't to destroy him! If he's got any cash at all, he'll just buy tons of shields, fighters, and mine disrupters. The real reason for puting a mine in every empty sector you find is to drain him of capital! For every mine he disrupts he spends 6000 to your 1000. If he takes it in shileds, it's at least 2:1 money loss! What good are shielded planets when he has to spend all his time trying to make enough money to go some where? Also, by destroying his fighters and mining (or mining right under his Toll fighters) he can't transwarp safely anywhere! You can't do anything to his shielded planets, but you can make him broke. You realy can't hope to kill him, but then again, as long as YOU cloak, he can't kill you! Good Luck! -Chris * Origin: Pacific Rim Wildcat! San Diego, CA V.32bis 619/278-7361(1:202 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ROBERT BENSON ³ Date: 05-07-92 To: QUENTIN HEBERT ³ Time: 11:59 Subj: Blind T-warping QH> Dear Robert: QH> Yes, blind T-warping can be done with relative safety. The key QH> is to fire an ether probe immediately before you make the jump. If QH> there is *anything* in the target sector then Don't make the jump. QH> If it's clear, then the blind jump is very safe. Ask Kris Lewis about QH> it, he has some stock info on the Blind T-warp that will provide more QH> details. Good Luck. Take care, Quentin Perfect!! I have a listing of all the "sister ports" in the game I am playing. A sister port is a set of ports neighboring each other, and can be compatibly traded with one another. Like a 1 & 3 , big bucks. I have a script file that handles the repetative typin' for me. It saves time and fingers. I could put it up as a message for those that want it. It isn't big. I am working on one that calculates the price to enter by itself. Mega Bucks * Origin: The Evans BBS,616-754-6180,1500 Megs & 5 CD-ROM's (1:2390/10) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ROBERT ELZINGA ³ Date: 05-06-92 To: LES STOVALL ³ Time: 08:49 Subj: Ferrengi Battlecruiser -> Aprox. When does the battle cruiser and dreadnaught come into -> effect? On one bbs, it was 3 months old..(game)..and i had a starship -> (maxed) and never saw ANYTHING! Not even ferrengi, but saw them whip -> other people when i logged on.. -> A little help needed. Well, for one, they are rare to run across. There was a game that I was in that was quite old and the battlecruiser and the dreadnaught both were active, but I only saw a battle cruiser maybe 3 times and a dreadnaught only once. I think that they also go after players they have extreme grudges on, so if you don't have a grudge with them, you might not bump into them too often. Also, the dreadnaught does not register on density scans. The battlecruiser registers as 100 on a density scan. There are other factors as well. A game can be really old, but if there are not many powerful players, then there will be fewer battlecruisers and dreadnaughts. If you happen to kill a battlecruiser or ESPECIALLY a dreadnaught, I've been told the reward is quite nice. Only good people get the full reward. Evil get rewards for killing the fighters, but they don't get a reward for killing the Ferrengi itself. At least that's what I have observed on boards I play here. I don't think it's very fair that evil players get any reward at all for killing the fighters. If they play evil, that's their choice, but they shouldn't get some of the benefits intended for good players. * Origin: The Panic Zone * (716)473-5204 * (716)473-0252 * (1:260/258) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ROBERT ELZINGA ³ Date: 05-06-92 To: LES STOVALL ³ Time: 09:11 Subj: I Know ³ Msg#: 3563 -> Say if you have a planet under it, make a class 8 and sell extra -> products daily ... neat little money maker. This is true, but it is better to find a class 8 or class 3 already built so that you can start taking advantage of it right away. Otherwise you have to wait while the port is built, then once it is built, you have to upgrade it to a decent level. They start out selling 501 units at 50% in each category. Easier to take advantage of one that is built and at 100%. If good players used a lot of these planet/port pairs they could, IN THEORY, compete fairly well with the evil players ability to steal. However since the steal/sell cycle can be used, evil players don't have to worry about diminishing profits. I think that if the steal/sell cycle were eliminated, and the evil starship not allowed, the game balance would be only slightly in favor of evil players. Add a salary to commissioned good players so that they can defend their planet/port pairs and I think the game would be perfectly balanced. The problem is that evil players don't have to worry about defending tons of planets. They can concentrate all their efforts into one planet. Good players have to spread out their defenses to defend all their planets. Of course, a good player could just concentrate all their efforts on one planet as well and leave the planet/port pairs unprotected, but a competent evil player would realize that the planet/port pairs were used to get free money and would destroy them. This would keep the good player at a disadvantage because he would have to keep rebuilding planets which uses up valuable turns in the colonizing process. So I think that a salary would be a welcome addition for good players. I'd also like to see good players be able to get rewards for destroying evil traders indirectly through the use of mines. A good evil player stays cloaked, which makes it very difficult for good players to take advantage of the rewards. One can however trace their movements and get an idea of where they are. If one is skillful enough to know how to trace properly, I think one should be able to get a reward for that. * Origin: The Panic Zone * (716)473-5204 * (716)473-0252 * (1:260/258) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ROBERT ELZINGA ³ Date: 05-06-92 To: LES STOVALL ³ Time: 09:25 Subj: I Know ³ Msg#: 3564 -> mines. A good evil player stays cloaked, which makes it very difficult -> for good players to take advantage of the rewards. One can however trace -> their movements and get an idea of where they are. If one is skillful -> enough to know how to trace properly, I think one should be able to get -> a reward for that. I forgot to add one thing. In order for the above to work, evil players should not be allowed to cloak in fed space. Otherwise one cannot leave mines waiting for them. This brings up an idea for a special type of mine. What do you all think of a mine that could be left that could be set to destroy either a particular trader or traders of a certain alignment? That way you won't have to harm traders you don't want to. These would be in addition to (NOT replacements for) regular mines. * Origin: The Panic Zone * (716)473-5204 * (716)473-0252 * (1:260/258) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ROBERT ELZINGA ³ Date: 05-09-92 To: JOEL DOWNER ³ Time: 09:30 Subj: Re: 1639 Shield Bug -> (1) I name my ship "The Merchant Marines," which makes me very -> difficult to trace (it's possible, but expensive and awkward, to sort -> through all of the entries). I don't see the point behind naming it The Merchant Marines. I know that one can do that to find all the unused ports in the universe, but if the game is old, there probably aren't many unused ports left so the sectors you actually ported at would stand out more. I suppose it could be used early in the game though. Actually, come to think of it, this doesn't do anything for you. It isn't awkward at all to sort through the port numbers. Just pick out the ones that are less than the amount of days the game has been running. The unused ports would have the days greater than the number of days the game is running. It might be a little expensive, but it is definitely not hard to trace one with a ship name of "The Merchant Marines" * Origin: The Panic Zone * (716)473-5204 * (716)473-0252 * (1:260/258) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BRAJ AGRAWAL ³ Date: 05-11-92 ³ HALL OF MIRRORS º To: NEIL DUPREE ³ Time: 21:23 ³ 000-000-0000 º Subj: Ship Manufacturers ³ Msg#: 3687 ÃÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄĶ Yes, the MARTEL MATRA trades in for a lesser value than a Le Richelieu or a Yokotosaki, or a Kvertoo... * Origin: PRIMETIME BBS (1:151/149) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ALFRED OVID CLOUTIER ³ Date: 05-11-92 To: DAN ROSEEN ³ Time: 21:37 Subj: Re: Evil Trick **>> StarDate: 08 May 92 22:15:00; Nebula Coordinates: 1:343/102 <<** **>> Quoting Officer "Dan Roseen" to Officer "Bill Gates" <<** DR> This has been in the echo a few times from other people already, so it DR> shouldn't bother anyone who likes to keep secrets. Here goes ... Yes, DR> you can steal to get free cargo holds. You can buy a ship, example: a DR> mule with 40 cargo holds and fill it up without buying holds by stealing DR> 365 holds of equipment from a port to get 32 holds added to your ship DR> each time. It's possible to go over your ship limit and use the extra DR> the holds for hauling colonists but extra holds will be lost when you DR> port again (this is why you cannot get more than 32 extra cargo holds DR> on a ship). Each time you do this you will lose 10% experience and raise DR> your alignment by 32 points, so you'll want to do this early in the game DR> to avoid losing alot of experience. DR> DR> I'm sure you already know this, but you must have -100 alignment to steal DR> so make sure you are evil aligned enough to get the holds you want before DR> you can't steal for holds anymore. Thanks a lot. Alfred Ovid Cloutier * Origin: The U.S.S. Light Speed ][: (617/925-8508) HST/DS (1:101/321) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: CHRIS SIZEMORE ³ Date: 05-12-92 To: DAVID BAYER ³ Time: 00:33 Subj: Q-cannon And Combat Contr Depending on the aggresiveness of your fellow players, and the ammount of fuel on each planet, you'll probably want to set the sector levels low (like 1-5%, I suggest 3%) and the on planet level around 10%. This should discourage all but the most powerful if your running anywhere near maximum on fuel. I've always felt that the fighters on planet should always be set to 100% defensive, since you get more defense for your fighter that way. And as soon as I have a combat computer, I don't leave fighters in the sector (but a few in the Corridor just outside to stop ether-probes!). And of course, the Q-cannon level is moot if you have more than 1639 planetary shields anyways. I hope this helps, Chris. * Origin: Pacific Rim Information Wildcat! San Diego, CA (1:202/711) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: CHRIS SIZEMORE ³ Date: 05-12-92 To: THOMAS HUNT ³ Time: 00:53 Subj: Blind Twarping -> *** Quoting James Bearss to Kris Lewis dated 05-06-92 *** -> > I read in a post today that you had some stock info for _safe_ -> > Transwarping. I only have used a fighter in the target sector. Is -> > there other way(s) to safely use the transwarp drive? It would be -> > to get some additional use out of that little 50,000 credit investm -> > Thanking you in advance. -> -> If you have an Ether probe, send it on its way and IMMEDIATELY TW TO -> DESTINATION sector. 90% of the time, you will survive. -> But remember that the sector must have nothing in it, or you die... * Origin: Pacific Rim Information Wildcat! San Diego, CA (1:202/711) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JERRY HARRIS ³ Date: 05-11-92 To: ROBERT BENSON ³ Time: 12:17 Subj: Script Files -> I have a script file that handles the repeative typin' for me. It saves -> time and fingers. -> I could put it up as a message for those that want it. It isn't big. -> I am working on one that calculates the price to enter by itself. -> Mega Bucks Good idea, Quentin. Are you aware, however, that such scripts (and more) already exist? They are called the Power Macros. They do your trading between "sister" ports, your single step warping, your thievery (if you are so inclined) and lots more. The catch is that they're written for an obscure communications program called Commo. What program do you use? I have used Telix since the early days and I know that its SALT language is powerful enough to handle such a task, but when I discovered Commo/PowerMacros, I switched rather than reinvent the wheel. Commo is not as good as Telix, but it handles my major needs and the advantage of the macros make it the program of choice for TW play. ...and yes, power macros already calculate the best price at ports so you get 3-4 exp for each trading session! Just thought you would like to know of the work already done along these lines. Anyone want to convert powermac to SALT? * Origin: [INFO QUEST][206-450-0115][14.4 HST] (1:343/90.0) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: QUENTIN HEBERT ³ Date: 05-12-92 To: JAMES ADAIR ³ Time: 15:23 Subj: Re: Ferrengi Gang Bang. Hi James; There is no perfect way to get the Ferrengi off you tail but you can minimze the harm. First, get in the habit of traveling with 0 or 1 fighter and max. shields - they will still attack but won't do much damage. Second, use Fed Space to lose them - you can travel through and they won't. This will let you shake them for a while and get on with more important business. Destroying them is an option but probably not advisable until you have enough power built up. Killing them only builds more grudges against you and that leaves you in the same bind you are in now. Finally, if the game isn't too old and you can afford it you might try the flip of the 0 fighter tactic - that is to get one of the more powerful ships (i.e., not a cargo carrier) and max out both the shields and the fighters. If the Ferrengi are still fairly weak they generally will avoid a powerful trader - cowardly little weasels - so lots of fighters may deter most of them from bothering you. Good Luck. Take care, Quentin * Origin: The Cess-Pool BBS - 817-545-3416 (1:130/80) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: QUENTIN HEBERT ³ Date: 05-13-92 ³ HALL OF MIRRORS º To: KRIS LEWIS ³ Time: 00:41 ³ 000-000-0000 º Subj: Twinfo ³ Msg#: 3994 ÃÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄĶ Conf: ( 27) Tradewars ³ Ref#: ³ º ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÏÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÏÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍͼ QH> 4.) *Do Not* believe everything that you read either on this echo or in QH> the docs or twinfo. Most of the information you read will be accurate, QH> especially on the echo, but not all of it. KL> I agree with and thank you for the rest of this, and would like to shorten KL> it and modify it slightly for a "canned response", with your OK.. The KL> section I quoted, however, I must disagree with. As the primary author of KL> (and with Joel Downer as the other major author), I think I can safely say KL> that EVERYTHING in TWINFO is correct. No one has brought an error to my KL> attention, and every piece has been play-tested extensively. Tell me an KL> error in it ... Dear Kris: Sure, you can use and modify anything I've written if you think it will be useful to someone as a canned response. As to TWINFO, no slight to that text or to its authors was intended but I think the caveat is still valid. Let me explain below exactly why and then if you can find a better term use it in the canned response instead of "accurate". First, though, I must confess that I can't possibly find an error in the text that you did because I don't have a copy. (Embarrassed grin here ...:) I must admit that when I read this post and then a subsequent post where you refer to Mega Scout being in TWINFO, I went back to re-read my copy. It doesn't have the Mega Scout info or even your and Joel's names. In fact, it refers to the soon to be released ver. 1.1 and has Fred Polli's name attached (Gee, I just haven't paid that much attention to keeping it updated...:). Now that I've confessed on to my caveat.... My primary concern is that people think and be aware of the limits of what they read. While there are probably not any factual errors (more than happy to take your word for it) there are probably some strategy suggestions and those should always be taken with a some healthy skepticism even if tech- nically accurate. Any strategy used in a balanced game can be countered and I don't think players should be given a "Holy Grail" - no matter how accurate - and then blindly follow it. I'm sure you and Joel will agree with that sentiment. The joy of the game derives from the variety of strategies and approaches that players are bright enough to invent. Just recently Joel and Brandon Bannerman have been having an excellent dialogue on the pros and cons of whether or not to haggle at ports, and of moderate trading vs. trading ports down to near zero. The point is that players can differ (and use their own approach successfully in games) even on topics that appear rather obvious to most. Also, not every approach will work for all players. I know some very experienced players who have read evilstar.text and still don't use the strategy. They know how but they just don't have the patience and style that is required to make the strategy work well for them. Second, since I confessed that I don't have an updated TWINFO, I also have a concern that others might not be keeping theirs up-to-date either. I'll check some of my local BBS's that have TWINFO to test this hypothesis. If the rumored bug-fix comes out anytime soon, several strategies will have to be re-thought and re-tested as well. ... I guess my advice to others is to "believe" TWINFO etc., as accurate descriptions of the authors point-of-view but not to mistake the advice contained therein for something written in stone. I'm sure similar advice is contained within TWINFO but it needs to be repeated. Take care, Quentin * Origin: The Cess-Pool BBS - 817-545-3416 (1:130/80) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MARTY TAYLOR ³ Date: 05-13-92 ³ HALL OF MIRRORS º To: ALL ³ Time: 07:01 ³ 000-000-0000 º Subj: Hello! ³ Msg#: 4019 ÃÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄĶ Well,I guess I might as well start becoming active in the messages! I've monitored this conference for quited a while. I've seen MANY utils float by. But I'd like a List of utils ... I've already got marked down for getting: SEDIT.ZIP--The Ship Editor AEDIT.ZIP-The Auxillary Editor WEEBANG.ZIP--Some sorta Universe Reorganizer TWSHIP23.zip--Another Ship editor EVILSTAR.TXT--How to keep a ISS after going evil TWINFO.zip--TW hints and tips What else did I miss guys? * Origin: The Sinking Ship BBS - Onliner Support (1:161/694) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------